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	<title>Comments on: Will Solving The &#8216;Hard Problem&#8217; of Consciousness Unweave the Rainbow?</title>
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	<link>http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-hard-problem-of.php</link>
	<description>Understand your mind with the science of psychology -</description>
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		<title>By: David K. White</title>
		<link>http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-hard-problem-of.php/comment-page-3#comment-24106</link>
		<dc:creator>David K. White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 04:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>NO + NO = NO</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NO + NO = NO</p>
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		<title>By: Jimladd</title>
		<link>http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-hard-problem-of.php/comment-page-3#comment-22229</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimladd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Science is a product (and an unusual one) of the mind. Science is no more rational than other ways of thinking - it just looks that way in retrospect which is how we teach it. As a product of the mind how can it think up the mind ? The latter is bigger than science- it&#039;s a paradox that is an outcome of Godel&#039;s theorem. The fact that science can articulate a problem does not guarantee in any way that it can solve it. Is there a rational description of quantum theory ? of the first cause ? or indeed the nature of mass and energy that does not involve a circular argument ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Science is a product (and an unusual one) of the mind. Science is no more rational than other ways of thinking - it just looks that way in retrospect which is how we teach it. As a product of the mind how can it think up the mind ? The latter is bigger than science- it's a paradox that is an outcome of Godel's theorem. The fact that science can articulate a problem does not guarantee in any way that it can solve it. Is there a rational description of quantum theory ? of the first cause ? or indeed the nature of mass and energy that does not involve a circular argument ?</p>
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		<title>By: gary.g</title>
		<link>http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-hard-problem-of.php/comment-page-3#comment-22134</link>
		<dc:creator>gary.g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-the-hard-problem-of-consciousness-unweave-the-rainbow.php#comment-22134</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s consciousness, which is it&#039;s content, and there&#039;s AWARENESS! An even tougher mystery to nail down, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There's consciousness, which is it's content, and there's AWARENESS! An even tougher mystery to nail down, no?</p>
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		<title>By: Alto</title>
		<link>http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-hard-problem-of.php/comment-page-3#comment-22095</link>
		<dc:creator>Alto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-the-hard-problem-of-consciousness-unweave-the-rainbow.php#comment-22095</guid>
		<description>One meta-comment: It&#039;s surprising to me how frequently people misunderstand what the hard problem even. Maybe these people don&#039;t experience consciousness at all? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Anyway, it seems like a lot of people are talking about that inner sense of me-ness, or selfhood, or maybe for Freud, the Ego; the thing that I refer to when I say &quot;me&quot;. That has nothing to do with the hard problem of consciousness, since it&#039;s trivial to show that that phenomenon is not a permanent feature of experience: go watch a good movie, read a book or do anything else that occupies your mind. In those experiences, it&#039;s pretty obvious that the sense of me-ness isn&#039;t present, in moments of intense focus, etc. But other phenomena are present, so then it&#039;s obvious that the sense of self is an object of consciousness that comes and goes, not consciousness itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One meta-comment: It's surprising to me how frequently people misunderstand what the hard problem even. Maybe these people don't experience consciousness at all? </p>
<p>Anyway, it seems like a lot of people are talking about that inner sense of me-ness, or selfhood, or maybe for Freud, the Ego; the thing that I refer to when I say "me". That has nothing to do with the hard problem of consciousness, since it's trivial to show that that phenomenon is not a permanent feature of experience: go watch a good movie, read a book or do anything else that occupies your mind. In those experiences, it's pretty obvious that the sense of me-ness isn't present, in moments of intense focus, etc. But other phenomena are present, so then it's obvious that the sense of self is an object of consciousness that comes and goes, not consciousness itself.</p>
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		<title>By: drstuckingfudson</title>
		<link>http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-hard-problem-of.php/comment-page-3#comment-21896</link>
		<dc:creator>drstuckingfudson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Understanding consciousness will only lead to a more awe-inspiring view of the universe.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In our most simple understandable form, we are energy. Consciousness could be a form of energy &quot;resonance.&quot; Similar to standing waves, intelligence may structure energy into an orderly form that we call consciousness.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Will neuroscience beakthroughs help us understand how and if consciousness emerges from resonance in the brain? Probably.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A big question is, &quot;Why am I experiencing this one particular life out of 6.5 billions possible lives?&quot; Well, maybe the answer is all too obvious: You&#039;re only &quot;you&quot; because of isolated sensory input and isolated memory. Memories may one day be digitally recorded and swapped between people, ending people&#039;s doubts of &quot;Am I the only one with perception?&quot; and &quot;Is my consciousness somehow unique?&quot; To the dismay of many, we may find the answers to both to be, &quot;No.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Understanding consciousness will only lead to a more awe-inspiring view of the universe.</p>
<p>In our most simple understandable form, we are energy. Consciousness could be a form of energy "resonance." Similar to standing waves, intelligence may structure energy into an orderly form that we call consciousness.</p>
<p>Will neuroscience beakthroughs help us understand how and if consciousness emerges from resonance in the brain? Probably.</p>
<p>A big question is, "Why am I experiencing this one particular life out of 6.5 billions possible lives?" Well, maybe the answer is all too obvious: You're only "you" because of isolated sensory input and isolated memory. Memories may one day be digitally recorded and swapped between people, ending people's doubts of "Am I the only one with perception?" and "Is my consciousness somehow unique?" To the dismay of many, we may find the answers to both to be, "No."</p>
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		<title>By: DiscoveredJoys</title>
		<link>http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-hard-problem-of.php/comment-page-3#comment-21809</link>
		<dc:creator>DiscoveredJoys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-the-hard-problem-of-consciousness-unweave-the-rainbow.php#comment-21809</guid>
		<description>I find the concepts in &quot;Philosophy in the Flesh&quot; by Lakoff and Johnson provocative. Their book is based on three major findings of cognitive science:&lt;br /&gt;1) The mind is inherently embodied&lt;br /&gt;2) Thought is mostly unconscious&lt;br /&gt;3) Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Based on these 3 findings I suggest that we are:&lt;br /&gt;1) driven unconsciously to interpret events in terms of roughly similar previous events (metaphors or pattern matching)&lt;br /&gt;2) Driven to explain our unconscious feelings and thoughts by conscious narrative that we assemble post hoc (if you ask people (or yourself!) why they have done things they often struggle to produce anything other than a shallow explanation)&lt;br /&gt;3) Because our consciousness (both unconscious and fully aware) arises from our bodies, senses, and memory of similar events together with memories of self (our physical boundaries, discrimination between self and not-self activities, mirror neurons etc) we have a top level consciousness which is effectively a narrative explanation we tell ourselves from our individual point of view. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;After the first few experiences of life we get locked into the recursive tale we tell ourselves, and remember it as a long running and persistant narrative. This feeling we call consciousness.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So in answer to the original question, no, I don&#039;t think there is a hard problem of consciousness. I do think it very likely that many people will find it very hard to accept the nature of consciousness - a tale we tell ourselves to explain away the 95% of our thoughts which are unconscious. Our consciousness has an evolutionary utility in that it provides a capability of allowing us to sometimes second guess ourselves. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Unweaving the rainbow? There is no rainbow, just as there is no Santa Claus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find the concepts in "Philosophy in the Flesh" by Lakoff and Johnson provocative. Their book is based on three major findings of cognitive science:<br />1) The mind is inherently embodied<br />2) Thought is mostly unconscious<br />3) Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical</p>
<p>Based on these 3 findings I suggest that we are:<br />1) driven unconsciously to interpret events in terms of roughly similar previous events (metaphors or pattern matching)<br />2) Driven to explain our unconscious feelings and thoughts by conscious narrative that we assemble post hoc (if you ask people (or yourself!) why they have done things they often struggle to produce anything other than a shallow explanation)<br />3) Because our consciousness (both unconscious and fully aware) arises from our bodies, senses, and memory of similar events together with memories of self (our physical boundaries, discrimination between self and not-self activities, mirror neurons etc) we have a top level consciousness which is effectively a narrative explanation we tell ourselves from our individual point of view. </p>
<p>After the first few experiences of life we get locked into the recursive tale we tell ourselves, and remember it as a long running and persistant narrative. This feeling we call consciousness.</p>
<p>So in answer to the original question, no, I don't think there is a hard problem of consciousness. I do think it very likely that many people will find it very hard to accept the nature of consciousness - a tale we tell ourselves to explain away the 95% of our thoughts which are unconscious. Our consciousness has an evolutionary utility in that it provides a capability of allowing us to sometimes second guess ourselves. </p>
<p>Unweaving the rainbow? There is no rainbow, just as there is no Santa Claus.</p>
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		<title>By: Dabbler</title>
		<link>http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-hard-problem-of.php/comment-page-3#comment-21793</link>
		<dc:creator>Dabbler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 07:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-the-hard-problem-of-consciousness-unweave-the-rainbow.php#comment-21793</guid>
		<description>The nearest I ever saw to a definition of consciousness&lt;br /&gt;was &#039;the capacity to experience&#039;, in a source which would be considered very unscientific. It would take some hard thought to work out whether that is tautological. Another criticism is that, if consciousness exists, you are not only capable of experience, but also incapable of not experiencing either sense data or your own thought, so&lt;br /&gt;&#039;susceptibility to experience&#039; might be more precise. Like every phenomenon, it can not be explained ultimately, because the terms in which it is explained will themselves require explanation, and so on until you hit the brick wall or fall into recursion. e.g objects fall downwards because of gravity. What is gravity ?&lt;br /&gt;The tendency of material objects to move towards each other in the absence of an opposed force. Why do they move towards each other ? Because of gravity. (oversimplified I know).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The nearest I ever saw to a definition of consciousness<br />was 'the capacity to experience', in a source which would be considered very unscientific. It would take some hard thought to work out whether that is tautological. Another criticism is that, if consciousness exists, you are not only capable of experience, but also incapable of not experiencing either sense data or your own thought, so<br />'susceptibility to experience' might be more precise. Like every phenomenon, it can not be explained ultimately, because the terms in which it is explained will themselves require explanation, and so on until you hit the brick wall or fall into recursion. e.g objects fall downwards because of gravity. What is gravity ?<br />The tendency of material objects to move towards each other in the absence of an opposed force. Why do they move towards each other ? Because of gravity. (oversimplified I know).</p>
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		<title>By: stelman</title>
		<link>http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-hard-problem-of.php/comment-page-3#comment-21758</link>
		<dc:creator>stelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-the-hard-problem-of-consciousness-unweave-the-rainbow.php#comment-21758</guid>
		<description>I think that a hard problem really exists, even if we don&#039;t know if it can be solved. The very fact that it belongs in the whole spectrum of philosophy of mind identifies it as a proto-science, which will probably evolve in the next decades as an autonomous discipline. If you are interested check out some of my thoughts about consciousness on http://encefalus.com/neurology-biology/split-brains-consciousness-michael-gazzaniga/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that a hard problem really exists, even if we don't know if it can be solved. The very fact that it belongs in the whole spectrum of philosophy of mind identifies it as a proto-science, which will probably evolve in the next decades as an autonomous discipline. If you are interested check out some of my thoughts about consciousness on <a href="http://encefalus.com/neurology-biology/split-brains-consciousness-michael-gazzaniga/" rel="nofollow">http://encefalus.com/neurology-biology/split-brains-consciousness-michael-gazzaniga/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-hard-problem-of.php/comment-page-3#comment-21740</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 05:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-the-hard-problem-of-consciousness-unweave-the-rainbow.php#comment-21740</guid>
		<description>The philosophers who are the most optimistic are the Churchlands. They hold a the interesting belief that consciousness IS the neurons and their chemical processes. Counterintuitive, but they have to do it to steer clear of materialism. Steven Pinker who is certainly not someone trying to smuggle woo in the door when no one&#039;s looking is a mysterian who believes that our minds just weren&#039;t evolved to be able to solve puzzles like this one. Dan Dennett is hard for anyone to quite pin down what he thinks. AI has certainly been a huge disappointment concerning the rate that it is moving. I certainly subscribe to it all being material, but I think we may be a long way off from discovering it. And I think Pinker &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; be right. BTW Loved Susan Blackmore&#039;s little book Conversations on Consciousness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The philosophers who are the most optimistic are the Churchlands. They hold a the interesting belief that consciousness IS the neurons and their chemical processes. Counterintuitive, but they have to do it to steer clear of materialism. Steven Pinker who is certainly not someone trying to smuggle woo in the door when no one's looking is a mysterian who believes that our minds just weren't evolved to be able to solve puzzles like this one. Dan Dennett is hard for anyone to quite pin down what he thinks. AI has certainly been a huge disappointment concerning the rate that it is moving. I certainly subscribe to it all being material, but I think we may be a long way off from discovering it. And I think Pinker <i>could</i> be right. BTW Loved Susan Blackmore's little book Conversations on Consciousness.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-hard-problem-of.php/comment-page-3#comment-21561</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 18:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spring.org.uk/2007/04/will-solving-the-hard-problem-of-consciousness-unweave-the-rainbow.php#comment-21561</guid>
		<description>The Mind and Brain are very seperate entities. Your brain is simply the receiver of information, much like a television set. The Mind is the sender. The Mind sends the information to the brain, which then processes it. So, all attributes of Mind, such as emotions, thoughts, memories, etc, are all a product of the Sender. The Receiver processes these signals.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Mind lives completely outside of the body/brain, in an entirely different dimension. Quantum Physics is now teaching us that there may be as many as twenty seven different dimensions. Of course, we can only experience three of them. So, trying to study the Mind-Brain problem is fruitless. Scientists will never find our Minds. It cannot happen. We cannot observe outside of 3D, so how are we to study this?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Internationally recognized Brain researcher Sir John Eccles once wrote, &quot;... that the mind is a separate entity from the brain, and that mental processes cannot be reduced to neurochemical brain processes, but on the contrary direct them. And... a mind may conceivably exist without a brain.&quot; There is a growing number of scientists that are sharing this idea.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Many laugh at this notion, labeling it &quot;Sci-Fi&quot;. But think about it. If our Mind truly lives within the brain, how can one experience thought during clinical death (ie Cardiac Arrest)? Doctor&#039;s Sam Parnia and Peter Fenwick, leading researchers in the field of NDEs and the Consciousness debate, describe patients that are clinically dead experiencing a vivid dream or awareness. Many explain that the lack of oxygen or the heavy drugs play a role. However, in many cases, the brain is dead. There are no signals being transmitted during clinical death (about 20-40 seconds in, all activity ceases). But several patients describe amazing details of the OR room, the actual procedures, etc. There are too many cases documented to dismiss. Find more at the site (http://horizonresearch.org/).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Although no one truly has the answer, the above information is probably the best guess (or, at least, best documented).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Mind and Brain are very seperate entities. Your brain is simply the receiver of information, much like a television set. The Mind is the sender. The Mind sends the information to the brain, which then processes it. So, all attributes of Mind, such as emotions, thoughts, memories, etc, are all a product of the Sender. The Receiver processes these signals.</p>
<p>The Mind lives completely outside of the body/brain, in an entirely different dimension. Quantum Physics is now teaching us that there may be as many as twenty seven different dimensions. Of course, we can only experience three of them. So, trying to study the Mind-Brain problem is fruitless. Scientists will never find our Minds. It cannot happen. We cannot observe outside of 3D, so how are we to study this?</p>
<p>Internationally recognized Brain researcher Sir John Eccles once wrote, "... that the mind is a separate entity from the brain, and that mental processes cannot be reduced to neurochemical brain processes, but on the contrary direct them. And... a mind may conceivably exist without a brain." There is a growing number of scientists that are sharing this idea.</p>
<p>Many laugh at this notion, labeling it "Sci-Fi". But think about it. If our Mind truly lives within the brain, how can one experience thought during clinical death (ie Cardiac Arrest)? Doctor's Sam Parnia and Peter Fenwick, leading researchers in the field of NDEs and the Consciousness debate, describe patients that are clinically dead experiencing a vivid dream or awareness. Many explain that the lack of oxygen or the heavy drugs play a role. However, in many cases, the brain is dead. There are no signals being transmitted during clinical death (about 20-40 seconds in, all activity ceases). But several patients describe amazing details of the OR room, the actual procedures, etc. There are too many cases documented to dismiss. Find more at the site (<a href="http://horizonresearch.org/" rel="nofollow">http://horizonresearch.org/</a>).</p>
<p>Although no one truly has the answer, the above information is probably the best guess (or, at least, best documented).</p>
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